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Danke auf jeden Fall, ist sicher hilfreich, wenn man einfach scrollen kann um sich auf To see whether "Neger" is (today) a neutral word in German, you may just have a . Both sides therefore may have run the risk to negligently hurt feelings. Anfang der 90er-Jahre wurde der Begriff Political Correctness (PC) an den.
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Translation of «Sommerregen» into 25 languages

So, now you can see how a concept is translated in specific contexts. We are able to identify trustworthy translations with the aid of automated processes. The main sources we used are professionally translated company, and academic, websites. According to them there'd also be a "normal" way of using "Neger". Maybe here we've come across some kind of "cultural difference" within the German-speaking areas.

Might that be a reason for the different perception of some words' nature? Comment Stef Still, if there is a chance that I might tread on someone's toes, it still doesn't suffice to know that there is "also" a neutral meaning of the word. Susanna Why would there be prejudices against tall people in the first place, unless many tall people had done something, across many generations, that earned them a specific reputation?

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Shorty Thu Sep 18 Thus it would have been the fault of people of colour themselves to be treated that horrible in Southern Africa and America in a historical period which is not too far away in both examples. As many examples given reveal hidden and open discrimination carries on in everyday life.

Your statement implied that black people deserve that perhaps! That's why my answer became like it was. As we all know: Your statement to be honest simply annoyed me. Sorry if I got you wrong but if you take a close look at your answer to it, you will see it is difficult to understand it another way. Comment Stef, that's interesting. I never contested that. Well, I have spent my 2 cents to the topic but need to complete some work now.

I will look again later this day or weekend. Peace and love to anybody.

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I think it also always depends on how one uses their voice to say word. When I was a little kid, I was just really dark with curly dark brown hair, brown eyes and in summer I always had a very deep tan. Again, the word Neger. But in this case, I really do not think she had anything bad in my about the use of Neger.

In this case, it was just to express what I looked like. Das ist immer schwierig. Dann sage ich ihm noch, dass er weiss, wer er ist und das er auf sich stolz sein soll. Und ganz egal, was andere sagen, wir haben uns und unsere Familie. Aber das ist alles so unbefriedigend, so kommt es mir zumindest vor. Was sagst du denn deinem Kind in solchen Situationen?? Spanish or Portuguese, from negro black, from Latin nigr-, niger Date: Why would there be prejudices against black people in the first place, unless many black people had done something, across many generations, that earned them a specific reputation?

Not necessarily all black people, but many. Comment Shorty, please tell me what you wanted to point out otherwise. And if it's that what you wanted to say, please explain frankly and detailed what you mean, as you threw it into this discussion that unclear. And thus you made it impossiple to react to it properly. If PC as you say forbids you to speak frankly, then you might understand that such a hint might cause a lot of irritation and thus would perhaps have been better not to be given at all, as you can't assume people to understand correctly what you mean unless you explain it detailed.

Every interpretation can just be an assumption as MINE above and as MY reaction to this answer and that makes it a very tricky and irritating method in such a discussion. Given this anyway huge potential of misunderstanding in this discussion such hints might not be helpful. Shorty, please tell me how to interpret your hint another way than I did. You left no chance to discuss your point properly and without assuming anything. I remember having seen the "Mohr" here in Cologne's Chocolate Museum run by the trade mark owning company.

Unfortunately I do not recall their recent explanation why and how they have come off using it. Der Mohr kann gehn. I presume it's a citation, but unfortunately I have no idea where or whom from. Comment Blo I quote you: And here you will find the entry I quoted earlier. Interesting enough, when looking up "Neger" on www. I wouldn't like to run the risk of insulting someone, only because a word may "also" be used neutrally. On the word "Jude" - I do feel a sort of hesitation before using it and I know other people do, too. And that is although I do not believe in any kind of inferiority of jews!

It's because in the past, the word "Jude" was very much used as an insult. And thanks very much Susanna for pointing towards shorty's implication that the discrimination of a certain kind of people would have to be based on something wrong they had done. I meant to comment on that but lost it on the way I really agree with Susanna and would like Shorty to rethink what he wrote there!

Stef Isn't the quotation "Der Mohr hat I have studied biology and therefore, I have to disagree. There ARE different races with different characteristics, not only with different colors. I am aware of the fact that this is not mentioned in the public, because people tend to misunderstand this fact and to misuse it for their own purposes. Different characteristics do not mean different qualities! And, the genes are not everything, they are only a part of every person, the cultural background, personal experiences, etc.

All humans are equal in the sense of rights and qualities , but they are not the same. I have the opinion, that "Neger" is a normal German word, too. It is derived from the latin word for black, actually. But, despite of that, I would not dare to use this word in the public, because most people think it is offensive.

Comment Chris Interesting what you write about different races. I cannot judge this because I have not studied Biology or anything related to genetics and such. But if it is true, there is really nothing bad about it as you said, because different features need not be better or worse. Being a woman myself I know that men have different features which are not necessarily better or worse either. Although this is a much more relaxed subject with many jokes about it!

But that has got nothing to do with PC. I don't use them coz I feel and know that other people get hurt by it. This awareness is my motivation. And it does't make a fuckin' difference whether it is considered to be political correct or not. PC just replaces one word by another. Which is more than enough for most people. They do not want to think about this kind of stuff.

And that is exactely what PC gives to them. I'm a bit surprised that Susanna gives so much about PC since she gave the best argument against it: This in fact eventually leads to what I wrote above. And I really can't think of what that could possibly be good for.

Meaning of "Sommerregen" in the German dictionary

Comment wdys You understood my point. En contraire, differences are good! Differences are the key feature of evolution. Differences are the whole point that sexual reproduction has been "invented", that means, existing features are mixed up and new features are created that may or may not present an advantage for the individual.

Features that are an advantage are kept, others are dropped. Just a very short summmary of evolution. This is true for plants and animals as well as for humans. I think it is sad that there are tendencies in the society to neglect differences and to make everything equal. It seems easier or more fair at first view, but at a second glance, it does not bring forward a deeper understanding of one another.

To look at your example, I believe men can understand women better and vice versa if they see and accept differences rather then neglecting them. My turn to say that this is what I wanted to say but didn't find the words for. Very odd; it's almost as though previously open-minded people had been brainwashed by skinheads. No wonder there's so much animus against inclusive language among German speakers, if they take this as the final word on the subject.

I couldn't fathom why otherwise rational and even liberal people seemed to regard "PC" as the next worst thing to a Schimpfwort. Now I have more of a clue where they're coming from, but it's still discouraging. Stef's example suggests that Wahrig may take a more sensible approach; I hope that's the case. Comment The whole point about language which Duden seems to have opted to overlook is that the connotations of words do change over time. Some words that were once considered neutral do in fact become insensitive, not because of the intention of all speakers, but because of their effect on some hearers.

It's not an attack on the integrity of the language. In a chat room a while back Nadja I think cited the example "Weib," which might be a useful comparison. Why aren't German linguistic purists also claiming that "Weib" is a wonderful historic word whose original neutrality we should proudly defend? Why aren't they worried that if we discard "Weib" we will also have to discard "Frau"? Could it be because there are more women than blacks in German-speaking areas? Several people have expressed rhetorical dismay at the idea of PC language's being a kind of slippery slope.

If we can't use Neger, so the argument seems to go, and if even Farbiger is dubious, then all we have left is Schwarzer, and what if "they" take that away from "us" too? Oh, no, we'll be forced to use unaesthetic neologisms like "Afro-Deutsch. The seldom-acknowledged emotion here seems to have to do with ownership of the language by its native speakers, and fear of losing control. I'm ducking as I say this, but yes, that fear does seem, from this more distant perspective, like a fear or dislike of outsiders. So to that degree it does seem to have something in common with the kinds of unacknowledged emotions that fuel racism.

However, the anti-PC position does indeed seem to mask some inherently quite conservative assumptions: I wonder if the opponents of PC really mean to defend these views as well, which seem implicit in their position, and perhaps even more so in its emotional intensity. On a side note, back to Jude: But maybe I've got that backwards? Anyway, I liked Peter's point that every language has its own delicate issues, and in fact, it suggests a further analogy that might be helpful. German hypersensitivity to anti-semitism, as I understand it, is not based solely on the Nazi era, but rather on deeply ingrained social and cultural attitudes that have persisted both in Germany and in many other countries, both before WW2 and up to the present day, both intentionally and unconsciously.

Similarly, American hypersensitivity to racism is not based solely on the slavery era, but on actual racist attitudes in our own and other societies, in the past and also in the present, in intent and also in effect. Limiting a discussion of racially insensitive language to the intentional historical perpetrators of the slave trade, or to America as an instance supposedly isolated in place or time, IMO seriously misses the point. I fully agree with him on that, it is obvious that the reasons lie in history.

I dare to propose therefore, that PC born out of this racist problem in the us, to avoid or hamper any future continuation of this, does and will not directly transfer as a policy to european countries, e. Which was not the case.. This is an excellent point. With that said, the conclusion seems to be that every country has its own sensitive points. However, I suggest that you consider this line one step further. It is not just different languages and countries that have their own sets of sensitivities. Within a single country the US may be a particularly suitable example, although I do think that Germany qualifies as well different ethnic or racial groups also have their own sensitive points.

Whether we like it or not, we tend to view our environment through our own sets of filters. I am making this point because I am convinced that a certain self-awareness of the "filters" one uses when perceiving and interpreting one's own environment is crucial for any understanding of such sensitive issues such as PC, hate language, overt or latent racism, etc. In other words, we may not always have the full picture because we don't live the other's life and that's, IMHO, just a fact of life, not an expression of some sort of racially biased malice.

Synonyms and antonyms of Sommerregen in the German dictionary of synonyms

Comment hm I'm sorry, but can't follow your arguments for several reasons. I don't know if you bothered to read my postings or to read the text following the copied link http: Somehow I don't think so, because that would explain what you wrote. Discussing PC only as an issue of language only is narrow minded and condemned to miss the point of critics to the effect that anti PC in general is considered to be either racism or a conservative view on language.

Of course you will find people with both motivations too but that shouldn't be the measurement, should it? I was born and raised in the fromer GDR.

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A country with a degree of PC all of you pro PC's would dream of. This country also breaded an unbelievable degree of racism as well as hate of foreigners uncovered to the rest of the world a view years after the German unification. And I'm sure we made it to the headlines of every little newspaper in the US too. Thinking that changing a language would change peoples mind, could effectively fight racism or even change society is IMHO not only wishful thinking.

For me it is a dangerous case of turning its back on reality. And, after all, this is based on experience. An experience you yet have to make in the US. I really hope that it will not happen. But I'm afraid it is inevitable thinking back to the events in LA a view years ago.

If you would bother to shed a bit more light on the reality of PC and look into it a bit more detailed you will find that PC seems to mask the real racism of a society rahter than vice versa. PC is for sure a good idea, but I'm afraid it does more bad than good because it will make you lose sight of what is really going on behind the scenes.

If you wanna take that risk I prefer fighting racism by changing people If you once have changed peoples mind, language will follow. And it will not work the other way. Und im Zuge der damit einhergehenden Diskussion kam es mitunter auch zu einer normativen Durchsetzung der zugrunde liegenden antidiskriminatorischen Ideen.

Sorry, just a typo ;-. Comment Non native speaker Disclaimer: My last posting is not meant to be offensive and does neither imply PC would assit, support, cultivate or even boost racsim nor that pro PC's wouldn't have the best intentions as far as racism is concerned. It just reflects my humble opinion on PC based on experience and engrained anti racism. Comment charlie, I did go to the link you suggested. It was pretty tough reading for me, but the impression I got is that people here in the US are grappling with many of the same problems.

I don't know if I can express this very well. When groups of people, no matter how well-principled, take it upon themselves to dictate changes in language, the results in my opinion usually do not work. Because I am an extremely independent and rather non-traditional person by nature, I'm no fan of PC either. I have many of the same worries about the whole thing as you do. I'm merely an advocate of politeness, of treating people with respect. For me, that's the end of it. In situations where I suspect a word will insult someone, I will go out of my way to pick another.

My impression is that you would too. I suspect that almost ALL the participants in this discussion would not willingly insult other people. What I would like to see in dictionaries is not possible, at least not the kind that is in book form. I would like to see a history of each word I investigate plus a consensus of how the word is used now. To me the great danger in indicating that a word or usage might be insulting is that we are usually not told WHY, or who came to this conclusion in the first place.

The consequence is that we are left without sufficient facts to make up our own minds, and I don't like other people dictating what I should or should not say or think any better than you do. They are intelligent people and report to me that the problem seems to have come from English or perhaps specifically from AE. All have told me that they avoid using the word in most cases. All have also said that the change in meaing is illogical, and that it is a shame that in this case American history is dictating how they feel they need to use THEIR language.

Now, to truly play devils advocate, a quote, from Martin Luther King Jr.: One hundred years later, the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Negro lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Negro is still languished in the corners of American society and finds himself an exile in his own land. And so we've come here today to dramatize a shameful condition. And here we see "Negro" used again and again in the most famous speech of someone I admire a great deal.

I teach piano privately. I work with about 50 people, one-on-one, and most of them are between the age of 8 and And I call them black because this is what they prefer. The last thing in the world I want to do is to make a kid feel uncomfortable. It is absolutely possible that time and circumstances will once again return "Negro" to the status of a respectful term. It would not be the first or last time that such a flip-flop took place in my language or yours.

So once again, although you did not address your remarks to me, I wanted to make clear to you and all others that my comments have been about being kind, not being PC. Two more points, and apologies because this got long. Second, I seldom speak out this way and only did so because I felt that people were not listening to each other. I would like to go back to coming here for the main reason I came here in the first place, to learn more about the German language.

Comment Gary, thanks a lot for your posting! Couldn't have said it better myself. Especially not in English ;- You mentioned that you got the impression that people didn't listen to each other. To me this is one of the major problems of our time. We speak and write and write and speak.

But we very rarely we take a break to listen carefully to each orther in order to try to follow the arguments of the one we are talking to. And certainly we spend to little time on thinking. All of it perfectly shown by this thread. Have a nice weekend! Comment Gary, I just saw that this thread is still alive. When I'm talking to my friend from Sierra Leone and when I'm referring to Africans in conversation with him I'm talking about "blacks" or "black people" and I've never experienced a negative response from him not even when I pulled his leg I've got the impression that we're kind of thinking along the same line.

The color doesn't matter. We're talking to someone and the color of skin is not relevant. Jetzt habe ich auch noch meinen Wahrig konsultiert: Offensichtlich ein immer wiederkehrendes Thema: Comment And another 2ct from another encyclopedia: But I doubt that around a lot of white Europeans did spend the slightest thought on how offending their language might have been Now most Germans feel that it is an insult to be called a Neger and therefore won't use this word anymore.

Durch den Sklavenhandel kamen seit dem Mit dem Panafrikanismus artikulierte sich im I won't contradict you at all. I was quite astonished myself when I read that about the 19th century in my Meyers Comment i might be repeating what someone else has already said but So geile Neger is not that nice a comment is it?

It just boxes people into a colour category. Then white people copied them, painted their faces "black" and did stage shows? So they got rid of the logo because essentially the symbol had connotations going back to the slavery era. My facts might be a bit screwed but it was sth like that anyway. Connotation is the issue. What I do mind though ist the way one word after another is attached a negative shade through the years and is then substituted by another word.

I agree with those who have written that this development doesn't really alter people's attitudes. About the word "Jude" In my opinion, "Jude" is not a depreciatory word. I just feel funny about using it because of the effect it may have on others. The word just has for a very long time yes, long before WWII been used in an insulting way. I want myself and others to come to the attitude that I do not stop to think before I use this word any more, just because the attitude that there is nothing wrong neither about the word nor about the person is established.

The same applies to the word s we do or do not use for people of all sorts of colours. Why are there so many inhibitions? Because prejudices still exist and many people still suffer from discrimination due to their looks, religion, sex etc. Comment Maira Sorry to keep you waiting, overlooked your entry Luckily there were not many such incidents till now. In "Grundschule" Primary school a boy once said that he was not going to vote for her in the "Klassensprecher"-election because she was black. I am grateful that the rest of the class contradicted him veherently! I still regret not having talked to his parents.

The teacher told me she had talked to both children. And I told my daugther that he probably just repeated something he had heard somewhere and that only stupid people think like that. Das Plagen ist der Sommerregen der Liebe. August Petermann, Carl Eduard Meinicke, Dann komme ich mir vor wie ein Blattim Sommerregen , das gierig jeden einzelnen Wassertropfen aufnimmt. Gotthard Oswald Marbach, Issued in four subseries: Rechts- und Staatswissenschaften auch politische Geschichte umfassend.